SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

LFH,

I’m really sorry man. At least the gaslighting’s over and you know your path.

I in now way shape or form think you were an idiot. You tried to give your wife the benefit of the doubt. She chose betrayal and then ten years of deceit. And I think her taking the pills first, and then telling you what she did, was her trying to get you to save her. Like, it was her way of saying "look at what all your questions about my A made me do".

I guess the fact that POS’s story matched hers also tells you that they’re still in contact. Did she cop to that?

As for advice on what to tell the kids, they’re adults. You don’t have to go into gory detail, but don’t lie to them. They’ll find out eventually and just resent the fact they were lied to. "We’re getting divorced because your mother just revealed to me that she had an affair. This has nothing to do with you and we both love you very much and are so proud of you, and nothing will ever change that." Others probably have better verbiage, but I think minimal details but full honesty is the right path.

Thank you all. I’m just trying to assess where I am. Our kids are adults but they really only have one foot out in the real world just yet. I worry what this will do to their future relationships. It won’t change my decision but I’m going to do right by them. They’re great kids.

LookingforHonesty,

Sorry your worse-case scenario was confirmed. Please inform the OBS of what you have learned. She will need to protect herself because this guy probably had additional affairs and the OBS' health may be in jeopardy.

Meet with the attorney and follow the attorney's advice. Especially with financial advice- find out what you can do with joint accounts, if any. I would suggest cancelling any joint credit cards immediately. Your WW may just go on a spending spree or try to use a joint credit card to pay her attorney's retainer. I don't know who is covering her medical insurance but discuss this with your attorney as well. One small silver lining is that if she is on your insurance you can look forward to paying just for you (and the kids if their still on it.) Also, discuss with your attorney what to do with accounts (retirement and life insurance) if you have any. You will possibly need to change the beneficiary listed on such accounts immediately. Secure and keep off-site all financial and important documents that you can find (bank and investment stmts., past tax returns, wills, power of attorney, etc) Your attorney should give you a list.

Since your kids are older, they do not need to be protected as much. Again, I would tell them the truth and what you have learned as well as the fact that you have had suspicions for a decade but your WW continued to lie and deceive.

Those are the biggies right off the top of my head.

Since you still may be feeling lost without any control of the situation, you can take some small steps. Honestly, you have every right to feel a little vindictive, if not petty-- that's perfectly ok. No, don't run out and sign up for dating apps. Take care of your body and get in shape. Make yourself scarce around the house for the next few weeks. Come home late from the gym/bookstore/theater/hobby group.. whatever you like to do on your own. When you get home, go straight to whatever separate room you will be sleeping in. Don't get pulled into emotional conversations with your WW. You no longer need to be your WW's emotional support.

Take down any family photos of you and your WW and any that also have the kids in them. You can keep up photos of just the kids or other family members- but nothing where you and WW are pictured together or solo. Put those photos in the room she is staying in-- keep taking them down if she puts them back up. Tell her she can hang them in the room she is staying in but not the common areas. (You probably have photos of you and WW on your phone if you feel you want to keep something.)

Have a short talk with your WW that you plan to do paternity tests on your kids and they will know why. I don't care if their spitting images of you or not, same generic traits, etc. She needs to know you have lost all trust in her and you are questioning what anything in the past 27 years is real. If you're confident their yours, you don't have to go thru with the tests but your WW doesn't need to know if you do or not. In fact, if she ever asks what the results were, then you got a pretty good idea that the cheating went back a long time.

What do you want to do with the family home? Can either of you buy the other out? Do either of you want to keep it? Ask your WW if she ever did anything sexual with another man in the house. It may be your dream house but if you learned she did things with other men in the house, could you live there? If you do not plan on staying in the house, start boxing your possessions you want to keep, get a storage unit and start storing the boxes there.

Again, follow any steps your lawyer tells you.

Above all, do not have sex with your WW. This will be her last/only weapon she has left to use. It's called love bombing or p***y bombing. In some states, the fact a spouse has sexual relations with the other after learning of the affair is called condonation and is considered conditional forgiveness for a marital offense such as an affair. Discuss this with your attorney. Even with you attorney's ok, beware of emotional confusion if you fall to temptation and definitely practice safe sex. This may curb your thoughts down the line if she tries something.. to be glib- who wants to use a rubber to have sex with their wife?

Good luck, LookingforHonesty, stay strong and resolute. You will get through this. There are loads of better more deserving women out there. Sorry your WW wasn't one of them.

LookingforHonesty, I’m sorry you find yourself here. I don’t post much anymore but my WW’s A’s were 10+ years ago and we just passed 10 years from dday….and we are still together.

My WW also attempted suicide a few days after confronting her with evidence she couldn’t talk her way out of. I still wonder if her suicide attempt was manipulation or genuine, at this stage, it doesn’t really matter.

I too committed to working on the relationship way too soon after dday. I went through 3 ddays before I got what she tells me is the full truth (prepare yourself mentally that you will never feel like you have the full truth). I suspect there is a lot more to your wife’s affair than you know. My suggestion would be to not commit to anything at this stage. My WW did the same things as yours, minimize, gaslight, outright lies, all of it.

Take time for you, get into some counselling for you. Get yourself into a better space mentally before you make any life changing decisions.

Welcome to the club no one wants to join. You will receive good support. I second Jameson’s thoughts. You are being hit with a crapload of hurtful revelations. Right now focus on your healing. Get into IC if it’s available. Remember nothing you did or didn’t do in your M caused your WW to cheat. Do try to exercise and stay away from alcohol. You seem to be well grounded but the pain will continue in waves. It’s your life. If you know your own mind and are set on D, keep it as a dissolution and separation of assets. I’m sorry you are going through this at this stage of life as you become empty-nesters and look forward to a less hectic time. Do be honest with your children. Good luck.

[This message edited by SI Staff at 1:02 PM, Thursday, March 19th]

I just wanted to post a quick comment about my experience when I discovered my wife (at the time, ex wife now) was cheating. At first it was we are just friends. Can't I have a guy friend? He is just my friend! Then we kissed once. Then we made out sometimes. Then I gave him oral once. Then I gave him oral multiple times. Then we had sex once but he used a condom. Then we had sex multiple times. Then we never used a condom. Blah blah, blah... Does it really even matter anymore?

The real question is can you live with it? Can you live with never knowing it all? Never knowing the full truth? And can you live with the fact that she would do that to you in the first place? It's not a one time thing or mistake. It is multiple times of making a specific choice to be dishonest and unfaithful to you all the while giving the very intimacies to another married man that were only due to you and reserved for you and for your eyes only.

By the way, after much investigation and detective work and talking to verifiable sources I was able to find out that my wife (at the time, ex wife now) was actually meeting up with him anywhere and everywhere they could hook up and blowing him in his truck and screwing him in motel rooms and having threesomes and even orgies sometimes, all of which they filmed. Eventually you learn enough and hear enough. And even then you will never know everything that happened.

All I know for sure is that I feel like a fool being kept in the dark by my own wife, the one person I was supposed to have the most intimate bond of loyalty and friendship with and the one person who promised to be loyal to me. What an unknowing cuck I was going to work and living life with her like everything was normal. How many times were they laughing at me behind my back?

I'm not saying any of this applies to your situation. But it might. Some of it might. The trickle truth probably does.

LFH - I'm so sorry, but this is what I expected. With a suicide attempt, and deleting evidence, I figured it was worse than she admitted. It usually is, they usually try to minimize. It's terrible to do this, especially without protection as you say, I'm always amazed at the risks people are willing to take. Don't think of yourself in negative terms you were the stalwart here who tried to make it work, you kept your vows, you did the right things....for some reason she wanted to blow it up. I think this was an impulse she had,, sometimes people have very destructive urges....it might be something she needed to inflict on herself for some kind of change or growth. She had and has an essential problem she can not work through with you or in the context of marriage, she has to work on this by herself as to why she would destroy something that so many people would kill to have. A good marriage, a faithful husband, children, a home,stability, so many people yearn for these things that she decided to blow up. Because even if you didn't know it was happening, she was blowing it up in her heart. Destroying the marriage in her heart, which is where all marriages are created.

You sound like a great guy, believe in yourself and your ability to make a good future for yourself and with your kids. You will find love if you want it. At this point, I would just regard her as someone with a serious defect that precludes marriage at this time, and that was her choice. My best wishes to you, and please let us know how you're doing.

The "good" thing is she took another step and admitted to having sex with this guy. That’s right, unprotected oral and regular sex, no protection, no pulling out, no consideration for anyone else’s health or anything else.

The lack of any protection bothers me more than the sex. This was at a time when she was with our kids and me every day. She never said no to the two of us having sex. She put us all at risk of whatever that asshole could have passed on to her. Plus, she admitted that it continued about six months longer than she previously admitted to.

Well, no surprise here honestly but still, it had to hurt (again) to hear. Im sorry.

Putting the faithful spouse at risk of a life altering disease truly is one lowest blows to the heart and mind of the betrayed but it is very very common. Just another symptom of all consuming narcissism. Not only was the faithful spouse not on the mind of the traitor, their well being didnt even move the needle of consideration.

It sounds like your resolve has hardened to move on from her which is understandable. As to telling your kids who are in their 20's I cant really advise there as my kids were young when it all went down but I think you should just be straight forward and tell them in brief what happened and what you have decided. They are adults and will need time to process the revelation and new reality. Be prepared to deal with why you waited to fully address this. I dont doubt that this topic will come up.

Yes, a 40 year relationship with 30 years of marriage gone by the wayside due to treason is a great loss, BUT as many can attest, really good things can come in time.

Strength healing and clarity to you.

[This message edited by DobleTraicion at 2:26 PM, Thursday, March 19th]

Double post

[This message edited by DobleTraicion at 1:00 PM, Thursday, March 19th]

Looking

You said:

It won’t change my decision

What decision? Have you already decided if the marriage is over or not? To me that’s the key decision: Do you want this marriage with this woman or not? How to move on would be based on that decision, with the goal of getting you out of infidelity and into a better future – based on what you want.

I don’t think you should rush that decision UNLESS you are confident on your path. Like I decided about two minutes into MY d-day that the relationship was over. But that was me, with a 5-year relationship and 5 weeks from the planned marriage, no kids, no mortgage and all that.

Just keep in mind that YOU can decide to divorce, but you both need to decide if you want to remain married.

From my first post:

I also think we need to accept we never get revenge or payback. You can’t "unaffair" your marriage. You can’t have her do push-ups or go to bed without dinner to make up for what she did wrong. Your options are to end the marriage or work on how the two of you move on with the intention of making the marriage good. Not because of the affair, but despite the affair.

All this… melodrama… about the grown-up kids, building a support system for her… IMHO wrong focus. Frankly and very bluntly: What she did is no worse than whatever other AP have done to their WS. Like… the damage done would be no less had they used protection, because the REAL damage is that she had sex with another man. In some ways, trying to quantify if what she did is "worse" is like trying to evaluate if a favorite vase is "more" broken if it’s in 10 pieces instead of 8.

Keep in mind that IF you decide to end this marriage (and that is a realistic, good and valid option) then divorce is not an alternative form of marriage. It’s the termination of marriage. Whatever relationship you have with your then-ex will be a completely different to the one you had and expected to have.

Honestly – nothing so far about your story is surprising. It’s at unicorn-level of probability that a betrayed spouse gets the truth on d-day. This form of minimizing and drawing out the truth… that is expected rather than surprising. "Only" oral for two years is the infidelity version of "dog ate my homework".

You state yourself that you need the truth, and I emphasized that to recover you need the truth.

I can also more-or-less state that whatever you can imagine will be immensely worse than what you are told, or can verify or believe.

I walked in on my fiancé having sex with OM. Stood there for what felt like 12 hours watching them – but was probably all of five seconds – before flipping the light-switch. I have been asked if seeing this wasn’t traumatizing, and it probably was. But I’m so grateful for having seen reality, rather than face my imagination. Just two people having sex. No toys, not-to-be-used-orifices, Kama Sutra gymnastics, a schlong to put a horse to shame… Just two people grunting and humping.

So as hard as it might be, appreciate it when she does tell the truth.

Not suggesting a dinner out or celebrations, but work at getting the truth to the level of it enabling you to decide where you want to head. If you respond to every new fact with suggestions of divorce and telling the kids… expect her to clam up.

If her having an affair is a dealbreaker then you already have that dealbreaker. It should be enough for your decision. You don’t get any more divorced if she had sex 20 times rather than 18 times. If you harbor any wish or hope of MAYBE salvaging this marriage… then you need to endure the truth.

I feel that a lot of the suggestion offered so far are more based on you divorcing and getting some payback on the way out.

I’m fine with you divorcing IF THAT’S WHAT YOU WANT.

But the only payback will be that you go on and live a happy life.

As far as semi-adult kids go then IF you divorce then they could be informed as to why in some neutral way. Shaming their mom could just as well cost YOU your relationship with your kids. Expecting them to take sides could just as well have them side with her.

I think divorce is a very possible outcome from what’s going on. That’s why I think that even if you are undecided then learning about what it would look like makes extreme sense. I think that even if you wish to reconcile, then for both of you to understand how precarious the situation is can make D inevitable.

If you have access to legal advice then seek it out. Go online. Be realistic: You wont lose everything any more than you get everything. Don’t remain married because D would leave you destitute, don’t divorce because you want to punish her. Divorce if that’s the only way you want to go.

But I don’t really believe you can ever do anything constructive regarding payback.

[This message edited by SI Staff at 2:34 PM, Thursday, March 19th]

Bigger,

When you say tell the kids in a neutral way, is it correct to assume you mean don’t tell them that she had an affair?

I was one of the ones who suggested the opposite, so for what it’s worth, I’ll present my thinking (fully acknowledging that I don’t know the smallest fraction of what you know on this topic):

His kids are in their 20s and their mom just attempted suicide. IF LFH decides to D her now, he’ll be exposed to criticism that he’s abandoning her when she’s most vulnerable. Even if they both say the decision was mutual, if she’s really sad about the D the kids would probably pick that up and hold him responsible. I didn’t suggest it as a form of payback, but I didn’t want him to be unfairly blamed either. And if it ends up coming out anyway, he could get blamed for being dishonest with them in the first instance.

Frank

We all have lines in the sand, all cheating is bad, we all know and agree to that, but some kinds of cheating are going to be worse to some of us than others. To me, a drunk one night stand is probably forgivable, I don't have very strong feelings about that being a basic insult to the marriage as long as it was not a regular pattern and no one got an STD or got pregnant. But having an affair with a friend or relative of mine, I would regard as absolutely unforgivable and borderline fiendish. I would NEVER even remotely consider reconciling from that under any conditions. So we all have our lines in the stand, infidelity is not necessarily one solid line in the same place for everyone.

I personally do agree with Looking for Honesty, I DO think cheating with no protection is terrible, especially for the woman, because of the risk of pregnancy on top of STDS (depending on age, of course). To me, it is such a basic violation of common sense and practicality that is also speaks to me how passionately the cheater felt about the cheating....they were willing to be swept away into something that could literally be dangerous - physically - to herself and to her spouse. There are STDS that lead to cancer. I suspect I had one unbeknownst to me at the time, and yes, I did have the common cancer that often results from that. Full hysterectomy etc. This is not a small concern. So they are swept away with passion, and I think the idea of doing it raw like this it's even more arousing for many people. There are people literally with HIV who will do bareback sex because...it's more arousing. I know people who have done this. And for a woman, it means you want to have all of the man, including his semen inside you - you don't want to create the barriers, you don't want to disrupt that romantic illusion. It's a real thing, and yes, I can definitely understand why LfH was SO upset and angered by this, as I would be. It DOES mean something that someone would be willing to risk this, not only for themselves but for their spouses. It's a terrible thing to do, IMO.

This is a brutal way to end a 30 year marriage and close to 40 year relationship but it was her choice.

IMO, your healing and your mental health depend on your taking responsibility for your actions. You have many options. Your W can't make you choose D.

I'm all for D if it what you choose mindfully. But if you feel forced into D by your W, I think you're making your road a lot more uncomfortable than it needs to be. For example, if it's your W who's making you D, what happens if you see a glimmer of remorseful behavior? If she's driving your decision-making, shouldn't you give her some time to show her remorse is permanent?

You may be unready to D right now, even though you turn out to be ready tomorrow, or next week or month or year. If you're thinking she's making you D, something unhealthy is going on, IMO.

You control you. Don't give your power away. Don't force yourself into a mold. Be yourself and your own best advocate.

This is not a situation in which you have to act fast. Take the time you want. Act on your time schedule, not on anyone else's.

*****

I just have to get the kids prepared for a terrible surprise and make sure the wife’s family is watching out for her.

I think you owe your adult kids notice before you file - D is bound to bring up a lot of feelings, and the sooner they can deal with them the better for them.

You have responsibility for yourself if you D. Your W has responsibility for herself and for getting the support she needs. If a post-filing suicide attempt would derail your plan to D, you're probably not ready for D.

There's no shame in that. If you're not ready right now, do what you need to do to get yourself ready. If you're uncertain about D right now, do what you need to do to gain certainty.

*****

I'm probably known around here as an advocate for R. In fact, I'm not. I'm an advocate for people - both BSes and WSes and everyone else - to take responsibility for themselves and to use their own power to make their own choices. When it comes to figuring out what to do with one's M after infidelity, that means (in outline form) figuring out what one wants and what one can do to come as close to what one wants as possible.

Until one partner acts unilaterally, both the BS and WS have power over timing. IMO. lots of people act fast out of fear, and I think that's a big mistake.

*****

IMO, you're in shock, and people rarely do their best thinking and interpreting feelings when they're in shock.

I didn't experience trickle truth, and it might have been my boundary. I might have ended our M if W hadn't come clean, so I understand if that's the case for you.

Otherwise, my reco is to hold off on making a decision until you feel good about whatever decision you make.

And filing for D as a way of getting your W to come clean seems like a waste of time, energy, and a lousy way to begin R if your W appears to come clean. I think you'll get a much better response if you tell your W something like, 'I need the whole truth. If you come clean now, I may stay. If I find out something significant in 6 months, I WILL walk.'

Then you can evaluate your WS's response. If she comes clean enough for you, you stay; if she doesn't you probably file. (as I say, I think I would.)

My recos, as strong as they can be:

Don't let fear make your decision.
Don't let others make your decision.
Don't cut yourself off from what you want until you get enough evidence that what you want is out of reach.

Four days ago you wanted R. Yesterday you implied you had chosen D. Today you want to assess.

Someday, probably pretty soon, you'll wake up and know what you want to do. You'll announce your decision. You'll feel pretty good about it.

Your posting doesn't say you're there yet.

Give yourself more credit than you do now. Have some faith in yourself. You'll know what's best for you sometime. You just need to accept that you won't know until you know.

Now for the alternative advice...

You are currently bleeding out emotionally while someone tells you to sit tight and "evaluate the bandages." Let’s be clear: indecision is not a sophisticated internal dialogue; it is a slow-motion car crash where you’re voluntarily staying in the driver’s seat. People love to preach the gospel of "taking your time," but in the world of betrayal, time is usually just a vacuum that sucks up your remaining self-respect. If you are waiting for a "glimmer of remorse" to be your North Star, you are essentially giving a thief the keys to the house because they looked sorry while carrying out the TV.

Divorce is not a tragedy when the marriage has already become a crime scene. It is a rescue mission.

The idea that you are "giving your power away" by acting fast is a total inversion of reality. Power is found in the exit. Power is saying that your boundaries aren't up for negotiation or a six-month trial period. By dragging this out, you aren’t "finding certainty"—you are auditioning for a role in a tragedy that has already closed its curtains. Your wife doesn’t need a "schedule" to show she’s changed; if she hasn't changed by the time the lies hit the floor, she’s just managing the fallout, not her character.

As for the "adult kids," they aren't porcelain dolls. They are grown humans who would likely prefer a father with a spine and a future over a father who spends a decade "processing" a betrayal everyone else can already see for what it is. You don't owe them a front-row seat to your misery. You owe them a demonstration of how a person handles a deal-breaker with dignity and speed.

Stop worrying about being "in shock" as if it’s a medical coma that prevents you from knowing your own mind. Shock is often just the moment your brain finally catches up to what your gut has known for months. You don't need to "wake up and know" eventually. You know right now. The only thing you're waiting for is the permission you refuse to give yourself because you're terrified of the silence that follows a loud decision.

Filing isn't a "waste of energy." It’s the most efficient energy-saving mode available. It stops the leak. It ends the surveillance. It turns the lights off on a house that’s already burnt down. Instead of waiting for her to "come clean" under the threat of a filing, file and let the truth be her problem, not your leverage. The view from the other side of a hard decision is always clearer than the view from the fence. Pick a side, get off the wire, and start living a life that doesn't require a committee's approval

Stay safe, better times are ahead. You are in my thoughts

[This message edited by DRSOOLERS at 9:41 PM, Thursday, March 19th]

Thank you all. We are each seeing a therapist now and have a marriage counselor in the wings. I’m still leaning toward D, it just feels like more of a future than wondering if she is with someone every time she goes out. But as mentioned in some of the good advice above, I’m not rushing. I’ll know in a week or two if we have any chance and by then I’ll have the kids prepared and her family ready to take over her care. It is painful and feels like a slow death but I want to be sure.

Thank you from the bottom of my heart for everyone advice. Even though I’m not following some of it, it feels good knowing you took the time to write it.

LFH:
Love this by DrSoolers -

You don't owe them a front-row seat to your misery. You owe them a demonstration of how a person handles a deal-breaker with dignity and speed.

My children are also all adults and I don't remember if I told them before or after I filed for D. Maybe it is in my postings somewhere. I tell them the facts as they occur or when I have made a decision. I haven't told them all of the awful truth. Why do they need to know all that? If you boil it all down to a simple reason, my XWH didn't/doesn't and maybe never did love me. It's obvious, I don't need to tell them this. They have all tried to be supportive. They know that it has been hard for me. They just need to know that I am ok. And, I am. I've found that if I stay in the present that I am ok. It's the spiraling when I think about all of our years together and how much I loved him and just wanted to be right next to him. Or, thinking too far ahead. Try to just stay in the safer spot, the present. And, make it a better place for yourself.