SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

Frank, I actually confronted the dirtbag a few days ago. In between the groveling, his story was very similar to my wife’s. Obviously, this means either she still speaks with him or maybe, possibly, it’s the truth? That would be a miracle and I haven’t seen any of those lately.
I haven’t wanted to expose him yet because I may need to speak to him again but I’m not against that. This affair ended over ten years ago according to my wife (and dickhead) but who knows? As Nuke mentioned before why would any woman be satisfied just giving oral sex as part of her two year affair? It doesn’t make sense but that is what both of them have told me. I guess it’s more likely that they still talk to each other, I just don’t want to believe it.

Gotcha, makes sense to be tactical about telling OBS. I do think telling her is more than just exposure though. She has the right to know who she’s married to. My father was a serial cheater. If anyone had told my mom at any point along the way what was going on, she could have had a chance to do something about it. Could have been pursuing R or maybe a D, but it would have given her the chance to make the choice. As it turned out, he left her for another woman at the age of 62, and she’s never even dated since (she’s in her 80s now). She never had the chance to have an authentic marriage…I do hope you tell her when the time is right for you.

And I hope you are finally getting the truth. I hope their story actually IS the truth, but I share your skepticism nonetheless. Many WWs have said they were only in it for the validation, and only really performed sex acts to keep the "ego kibbles" coming. Or maybe the oral happened at the end of the A and they pulled the plug before it crossed that final line…I don’t know. My fingers are crossed for you.

I highly doubt you have the entire extent of things. You currently have no idea how deep this rabbit hole is. You may never know how far and you certainly will not have every single detail of it that you desperately need. Not a 2 year relationship. You need to start thinking whether you can accept that you will never have 100% of everything and whether you can live with that knowledge. Some people cannot and there's not a damn thing wrong with feeling like that. It is 100% valid. None of this is your fault.

Also, unfortunately, do not be surprised if the affair went underground and they found other means to communicate and to meet after you discovered the amount of texting between them. Did she have Facebook (in this day and age, who doesn't?) Instagram or Snapchat.. all those apps are easily concealable and do not show up on a phone bill. This is why you need to inform the OBS to see if she can discover anything from her end. Maybe you find an ally in your truth seeking, hopefully she is willing. But beware she may just want to stick her head in the sand and ignore it. Maybe this wasn't his first affair and she's learned to live with him. Sad but not unheard of, unfortunately.

Please follow through with the attorney visit. Filing for divorce is not going nuclear. Consider it like sending nuclear equipped bombers. Unlike missiles, you can always recall bombers. You can always end/dismiss the divorce up to the Judge signing the decree, and in reality, even after the decree is signed you can always move for a new trial or motion to vacate decree, so really, it's not the end.

On that note, you need to consider have some deep, honest conversations with your children. They are in their 20s so they are old enough to know the truth. You've seen the results of what 10 years of lies and deception lead to. Don't let your children and close family also stay in the dark and clueless. The truth -always- comes out; better it come out now and come from you rather than neighborhood gossip or another family member blurts something out years from now. Because of your WW's recent self-imposed mental crisis, it would be far too easy for you to be portrayed as a cold, uncaring and abusive spouse that leaves his wife after a metal health diagnosis. Maybe your WW facilitates this narrative, (she seems to embrace victimhood rather than face her flaws) or maybe, friends and family jump to this assumption because they don't know all the facts. You can't control what people think but you can inform those closest to you of the facts to let them come to their own conclusions. Try not to show them your anger (it will be difficult) but put it in a way that both you and your wife will need their support going forward.

You may want to express to your son that you understand if he needs counseling and to have someone to talk to. Offer to help him find a therapist. He may feel guilty and somehow this is his fault because it was his coach and he didn't (hopefully) see or detect anything between your WW and her AP. It's no more his fault than your fault and he needs to understand this.

Thanks Frank, I hope so too.

Nuke- I fear you’re right about the depths of this and I am the kind of person who can’t move forward without all of the details. She will feel like she’s getting away with something and it seems like that will somehow enable/encourage her to continue. I wouldn’t be able to live that way.
As far as our kids, my son doesn’t show much emotion, so I’m not sure I’d ever know how badly finding this out would hurt him. Of course he could go to therapy but I really don’t want to saddle him with a need for that. My daughter is extremely close to my wife and extremely perceptive. I worry more about her having had a feeling about this whole thing and feeling guilty once it comes out. I think she realizes her mother is a handful but probably has not wanted to see things for what they are, just like me. I’m worried that this will hurt her badly.
It’s sad though, when I brought up talking to the kids with my wife she gets very short and says that the kids will be fine because "they’re adults". I don’t think they’ll be fine and am worried about her attitude.

We’ve gone two days without me bringing up the affair and she hasn’t even tried to mention it. I’m pretty sure she thinks the whole thing is going to go away after a few therapy sessions. If that’s what she considers making an effort, all of this may be a waste of time.
Thanks to all!

Buddy, you only have to deal with yourself. You can only control yourself, not her. Don't try to get to the "full truth", you'll never get it. It will be a constant torment for you and for her.

If you decide to stay (which was and is a bad choice for you and the children), then stop continuing the agony. If you can't accept an affair and a "trainer," let it go, let her go and move on your way.

It's not your fault, the whole affair is solely on her. She is reaping the fruits of what she has done, and you are powerless to help her, "we will overcome this together" - is an illusion.

Don't you realize that she's not happy with you? She stayed with you because it's beneficial to her! You're her second/third/etc. option. She doesn't love you. DOES. NOT. LOVE. UOU. Period!

But the worst part is that she doesn't respect you because she betrayed you, lied and continues to lie in the name of her well-being. She doesn't care about you a bit and never has.

There's a chance she'll never cheat on you again, but is that really all you want? And what about true love and true mutual respect, what about sincere friendship? It all went away the moment she chose another man over you. And there's nothing you can do about it, and neither can she. Because her love for "trainer" and their emotional connection haven't disappeared, it doesn't happen that way.

Do you want to try again and do the Sisyphean labor of "reconciliation" which you kept doing after D-Day?? Well, you're your own boss. But ask yourself the question: "Who is she thinking about when she has sex with you? Whose name is she whispering to herself during orgasm? Who does she dream of alone with herself?"

Of course you know the answer, so admit the truth.

[This message edited by LeoOmela at 11:16 AM, Wednesday, March 18th]

Just getting caught up on yout thread. Sorry you're in this mess.

You said:

We’ve gone two days without me bringing up the affair and she hasn’t even tried to mention it. I’m pretty sure she thinks the whole thing is going to go away after a few therapy sessions. If that’s what she considers making an effort, all of this may be a waste of time.

No real surprise here, right? This is her modus operandi from what youve describex. Ignore, distract, trickle truth, blame shift, etc, etc, etc. It is apparent to me that she could care less about your healing and hopes that yet again, youll "be mature and let it go". She is nowhere near remorse. So, you feel forced to investigate, fact check, interrogate, re-examine. What really happened? What were the sex acts engaged in and how many times did they happen? How long did the treason go on? Its exhausting and problem is that, even with a poly, youll never know the true scope of her betrayal and you cant depend on the word of proven liars and traitors. I lived this for a decade until it all ended.

May I suggest a strategic retreat? Back away from all of this for a while but NOT in a "business as usual" way. Back away from all of it and back away from her. Time for a well deserved, hard-core 180. Invest in yourself. Take up hobbies and interests that youve sacrificed for her. Think long and hard about what you want the rest of your life to look like. As you take time for yourself, I recommend that you read two books:

• No More Mr Nice Guy

• The Way of The Superior Man

In a nutshell, take the helm of your life and start steering in the direction that is best for you. Chart a course for a new future that is not on autopilot dictated by the "comfort of the (toxic) familiar". This may or may not include your ww.

I can tell you from experience that life is way too short to live in limbo. Especially as it pertains to the most important committment in your life.

I could go on. The massive damage to the pair bond. The change in both the betrayer and the betrayed that marital treason enacts.

I will suffice it to say again, think long and hard about what you want the the precious remaining years of your life to look like.

Strength and clarity to you.

[This message edited by DobleTraicion at 2:14 PM, Wednesday, March 18th]

Leo- thanks for pep talk. Just kidding, you may be completely correct. I’m reserving all of my options and I have kids and her metal health to worry about before I make a move if necessary. This is miserable, though.

Doble- You’re right, I am living in limbo and it sucks. I’m trying to make sure her family is getting involved to support her, she is going to her doctors and taking her medicine so she starts to improve. She’s destroyed something good and doesn’t seem to want to work to get it back. I can make a decision once things settle down a bit, I won’t give it long.
You’re also right about life, it’s short and wasting time hoping you have the relationship that you really want is not living.
Thank you very much.

So sorry you are here. In some ways I think finding out long after the fact might be worse or create more problems because you can always wonder about what else went on as so much time intervenes. And whether anything during the past years was real. I would not assume anything she has told you is true, especially as she has been so vehement about hiding all evidence which to me indicates it's worse than she's admitting to. Do you know why she admitted to even this much? Do you think the other spouse has any idea of this? I have to wonder if something is going on over there. If this were me, and I can really only say what I would do, because I'm an extremist anyway, I would tell the other spouse. I think they should know on principle, and why should you be the only miserable person here - let's make the other man's life miserable too. Not only should she know, but it might help you to get more info about what really happened, how long, etc, because between destroying the evidence and the S attempt, I would guess she's lying to you.

I think once again we have the answer to the magic question, can't people have opposite sex friends, and the answer is almost always....NO. Because if you are of a similar age and at all attractive, the inevitable usually happens especially when people are alone. This is why we don't allow ourselves to be tempted. It's foolish to even allow temptation to become an issue. But, again, the answer to this question is almost invariably.....NO.

I am so sorry that you have this mess here to try to pick through. I guess if this were me, I'd ask myself at this point, how do I really feel about this relationship. Do "I" even want to go forward and continue this, even knowing what I know now (and there maybe more as I say). Not thinking about the kids, about finances, about her feelings, about the house, about the extended family or neighbors, or church or anything else....DO I REALLY WANT TO CONTINUE THIS RELATIONSHIP WITH WHAT I HAVE BEEN PRESENTED? My feeling would probably be no. Yours may differ. I usually recommend that people file for divorce at this point because it sets a firm boundary and it lets the cheater know....you are not kidding around, you're serious. Better fess up, come clean, start making amends, whatever you need or want. You're gonna be wondering about this a lot and not only what they were doing and how long, but how this has affected your relationship and family life over the intervening years. Personally, I'd rather walk because I don't like complicated situations - I find they are like a knot you can't untie. That's me though. Be willing to consider anything and be willing to do it FOR YOURSELF. You don't have obligations to her at this point. Not to me, anyway. YOu don't have to be harsh about this but DO consider your own needs and interests FIRST because....no one else did and probably won't. YOu need to do what's best for you, don't sacrifice yourself. Even if you get through this crisis, down the road it doesn't pay off. Do what's best for you once you figure out what that is.

As for her, the suicide attempts are probably manipulative, usually they are. She may very well be this sad and desperate (which again indicates this affair was more than she's saying) and only a mental health professional can really handle that. YOU CAN'T and you should not be expected to. A lot of the time suicide threats or even attempts are ways of manipulating someone and you can't allow this. YOU ARE THE INJURED PARTY HERE AND TO YOU, YOUR WELFARE HAS TO COME FIRST. You only have one life, don't sacrifice it for someone who did not appreciate you. I emphasize this because I think this is pretty common. If she threatens this again, or you think she's going to do something, call the police or EMTS right away. You can't deal with this, this is a professional area. She has to be treated or de-escalated right away by someone who knows how, and she needs to get herself under control. YOU CAN'T LIVE UNDER THESE THREATS. This IS often a way of controlling people, even if they actually are sad and feeling desperate. She has to learn to deal with what she did. Don't allow yourself to be manipulated by her or to feel so sorry for her or fearful that you let it run your life.

This is another reason to contact the other spouse because ....she should know, as I say, and AP should not get a free ride here, and it may help you to get and understand the whole truth. I can't help but wonder what the other spouse thought of this woman "exercising" at their home. I would look very askance at that from the beginning so she may have another side of this story too from her perspective.

Whatever you do be kind to yourself and take good care of yourself. YOU ARE THE INJURED PARTY HERE - YOU AND THE OTHER SPOUSE....NOT your wife and not the AP. Do what you feel you have to do that is the best for you and don't feel guilty about that. Put yourself first here, get enough sleep, drink water (you'd be surprised how easy it is to forget) and try to eat well. Many people either don't eat or binge eat (me). And do come back here and check in - you would be amazed at how many people have been through your situation and maybe have handled it in various ways. But you will get plenty of concern and support here.

As bad as this revelation is, and it's the worst....it may also explains things to you about the past few years that might have been mysteries otherwise. It might provide you with clarity about what you want most out of life and how to get it. Good luck!

Ah, I see that you actually did confront the AP. I probably have missed some things in this thread, I'm sorry if my comments may not be appropriate because I may have missed something. My guess is, considering her suicide attempt and her deleting all this info from years ago, that this may have still be going on or the end might be a lot more recent than you imagine. Don't assume this is in the past. If their answers seem to coordinate, it might be the truth, but it might also be coordination. It IS hard to imagine a lengthy affair with just oral sex but that's the problem faithful spouses find themselves in with these things.....without independent evidence, how can you know? Unless she can recover evidence, like from deleted files or some other source (maybe they used WhatsApp or something like that, it becomes a matter of trust and....you don't know what you're looking at. That's why my feeling would be, file for divorce and insist on nothing but the truth, and keep going depending on how YOU - YOU - feel about this relationship NOW and if this is acceptable to you. You don't have to work this out if you don't want to. I understand there may be family or financial or religious or whatever reasons that might matter to you, but to me, I would just walk. I think she's shown what she thinks of you and your relationship and I wouldn't bother trying to untie this knot - it's like a crazy making experience because how can you ever know the truth? The truth you DO know is that she did this, that it was important enough for her to try to kill herself over (if this was a real attempt) and what else do you know? I would contact the other spouse if you haven't because she may have more actual info, but this might be the best you can do. Some people say use polygraphs, but I don't know how well that works. I think there are people who can beat them, and personally....I would not want to be with someone I needed to take to a polygraph no matter how long we were married. Life sometimes presents us with a major opportunity for change, whether we want it or not. I would take it. Otherwise, unless she or he or someone else can show you some proof, you're gonna be taking a lot on faith and this is always gonna be a cloud over your relationship going forward.

Bond- All your thoughts are greatly appreciated but your final comment probably matters most. I’ve just finished living for about ten years with a nagging suspicion about his affair. It hurt our relationship and it’s a crappy way to live. Would her admitting to anything and everything with this guy just lead me to suspect that there is more? More affairs, more whatever. I really don’t want to live like that. Maybe going solo is the best idea for now.

Doble- You’re right, I am living in limbo and it sucks. I’m trying to make sure her family is getting involved to support her, she is going to her doctors and taking her medicine so she starts to improve. She’s destroyed something good and doesn’t seem to want to work to get it back. I can make a decision once things settle down a bit, I won’t give it long.
You’re also right about life, it’s short and wasting time hoping you have the relationship that you really want is not living.
Thank you very much.

30+ years of emotional enmeshment has to be very very hard to work through. You are still looking after her well being in spite of all the damage and trauma she has inflicted. This is what a quality, faithful, caring spouse does. Still, you can begin the detaching process and a good therapist can help you with that process.

First off, I just have to hand it to you, you have got the correct attitude and disposition in handling this. Keep going the way you are. It will serve you well.

I have to say, just judging by what you’ve said, I would believe her attempt is nothing more than manipulation. Something real like this would be followed by some extreme emotions and constant sorrow over doing this to you after it has all come out. But I’m not really seeing that. It sounds like "oops, tried to kill myself! Anyway, all is well let’s just move along."
Is that closer to reality?

There’s a couple sayings that have proven true for decades. One is, you have to be willing to lose your marriage in order to save it. I think you have already adopted that attitude and it is a good one to have. Way too many BS’s have bent over backwards to stay in their relationship. Which never turns out good for them. Their WS, even if they stay, lose pretty much all respect for their betrayed partner.

The other one I’m quite fond of is, If the WS is not crawling on broken glass to keep you and the marriage, they just aren’t worth it.
You should NEVER be the driver in R. Not to say you don’t have a big role to play, but it is her that should be attending IC, it’s her that should be reading the books, it’s her that should be apologizing and writing out factual timelines. It’s her that should be offering a polygraph to verify everything as truth.
Anything less than that, just ditch her and replace her with someone who hasn’t cheated on you. There’s a few billion to choose from.

All said though, you’ll be fine in the end. Your attitude is correct.

Looking for Honesty - well my dear, you certainly live up to your name, and I appreciate that greatly. The problem here is that....unless we have a strong communication trail, via the phone or computer, or we have financial receipts and records, or we have photos or Facebook, or we have a Private Investigator....we just never know. How are you going to know the totality of everything that happened when all you have to go on is what you are told by the person who betrayed you? And the other one who betrayed you seems to confirm it, but as you say, they could have collaborated. I would suspect they have even if what they're saying is the extent of what happened.

What's not clear to me here is, I know you suspected this, but what happened that finally brought this out into the open? Was it just your questioning and she finally admitted it? Did she do or say anything that made you think of this now? Did she bring this up somehow and you responded to it? Why did she try to harm herself and how serious was that, did she explain that? I guess I'm trying to understand how this came completely out into the open because sometimes it's because some thing is going to come out anyway, something's going to become public (or they think) someone's going to talk, perhaps the other spouse, someone found out, etc. After all this time why would this come out now?

So, if what you know is all you can find out, even if she - or he - tell you more - you still have no independent proof, all you have is what the people who betrayed you tell them. Then you have to make a judgment of whether you believe that or not or how comfortable you are with that level. And, as you intimate, you don't know if this guy was the only one. I'm sorry to say that, but you've probably wondered it. I would. Once trust is broken, there is a world of things you don't know, and can't know if there is no evidence. Without evidence, we often imagine the worst. I can't say if there is any level of knowledge that would reassure you sufficiently to want to continue this relationship. What would probably happen with me is that if this were may situation, I'd try to find out more (because I tend to obsess) until I realized I keep coming up against the stone wall of belief vs evidence. At that point, it becomes are you happier with or without this person in your life? How much are you potentially willing to overlook? Can you feel enough trust in this person to keep sharing your life with them?
At some point, I would have to say I can't find any more evidence and this is the way it is, what do I want to do. IS THIS RELATIONSHIP ACCEPTABLE TO ME - as it is with whatever I think I know? Everyone has to answer that for themselves. Personally, I like a quiet, uncomplicated life so I would say no.

I often think a separation is wise because it gives a break in the tension and might give each side a fresh perspective. You each get to see what you gain and lose with each other and in the situation. If you can afford it, I think a separation might help to clarify how you feel and what YOU really want out of life and a relationship. No relationship should be sustained just because it IS, it should be maintained because it fills needs in your life and you make you feel as you want to in a relationship. Whatever that is.

I think a separation is a good idea. And you can also continue to try to discover if you have the full story. That's why I say to talk to the other spouse. Maybe that will help. But in the end, no one can know everything about every situation, we all have to proceed with the best knowledge we have at the time. Do what is best for YOU in this, and try to be kind to her if you can, as much as you can, because as bad as what she's done is, I'm sure she didn't mean to hurt you, who knows why she did this, you may never understand it, but you don't have to live with it. The freedom to choose here, IMO, should be yours.

I hope I don't sound too disjointed here, I am being constantly interrupted today so I don't know how well my thoughts are flowing, but I hope this is of some help.

One thing I will say is that....in my experience, and I think many if not most of the others here would agree, this never goes away fully, at least not for a long time because it is such a devastating event and it destroys trust. So there will be things that will make you think of this, sometimes out of the blue, holidays and birthdays may trigger feelings or memories, things you see on the street, on TV, movies, a name, it could be a lot of different things. And if they go someplace...what are they doing? if they talk to someone (this happens with me) a particular neighbor for example, "too long" do you wonder. That's a particular trigger for me, until I finally started saying I don't give a shit, and that's not a great attitude either, LOLOLOLOL!!! This leaves scars and I think if you stay with someone the scars are gonna be deeper than if you leave. I would have left if I could, financially and healthwise, and frankly.....that's still true. So that's my bias. I think you heal faster and better on your own. Another reason I would recommend the separation, I think it's a better way to heal and maybe you could decide to give it another try down the road....or not. To me, this is totally YOUR decision. You don't really know your wife any more.

Ohitsyou mentioned a couple of worthwhile old sayings.

Here’s another one:

There are two people in every marriage; a liar and a fool. If you’re not the one, you’re the other.

Best wishes.

Thanks again to everyone. Well, I haven’t pushed my wife for a couple of days and she hasn’t made much effort to discuss her affair so today I mentioned the lack of effort to her and of course we got into it (I know, terrible 180).
The "good" thing is she took another step and admitted to having sex with this guy. That’s right, unprotected oral and regular sex, no protection, no pulling out, no consideration for anyone else’s health or anything else.

The lack of any protection bothers me more than the sex. This was at a time when she was with our kids and me every day. She never said no to the two of us having sex. She put us all at risk of whatever that asshole could have passed on to her. Plus, she admitted that it continued about six months longer than she previously admitted to.
This seems like the textbook case that everyone on here has been predicting from day one. I was praying (literally)that it wouldn’t get this bad. Probably like everyone else, I hoped she wasn’t as much of an animal as other people you read about. Well, no more mystery.

Boy this whole thing went bad, fast. The upside may be that my mind is made up. This is a brutal way to end a 30 year marriage and close to 40 year relationship but it was her choice. I just have to get the kids prepared for a terrible surprise and make sure the wife’s family is watching out for her. Thanks again for all the good advice. Please don’t hold back if you think I’m an idiot for being around this long. Kids are in their early 20’s if anyone has advice on breaking it to them.

LFH:

So sorry about what you are going through. This is trauma. I really believed that after all my married years that we would work through my WS betrayals. But, that didn't happen. My WS went right into panic attacks shortly after dday. A medical emergency that evolved into a couple years of his disclosures being shelved. Or, was it just - manipulation? Then, despite numerous requests for information, finally I did get some information that I guessed to be - drastically minimized. Along with the usual behaviors, trickle truth, lies, blame shifting, gaslighting, etc. I still don't know the entire story, and I doubt that I will ever know it. He then seemed repulsed by me, then his 'confession' that he was no longer in love with me. He chose to destroy our marriage and whatever was left to save himself from a full disclosure. During the years after dday, I started to remember so many moments during our years together that I doubted him. I just couldn't believe that he would ever betray me. But, he did over and over, on so many levels - so many times. I wanted to jump right into the fixing of us, eager to do whatever it took. He just wasn't ever capable of a real reconciliation. He isn't now, and may never be. That is my reality. Life is too hard with him. It always was, I just couldn't accept it - until I could. Trust yourself to know what is real.

Boy this whole thing went bad, fast. The upside may be that my mind is made up.

You’re actually doing better than most. Your adulterous wife is proving you’ve got nothing to work with here, certainly at least not right now. I would advise the following:

1. File for D. Divorce takes a LONG time, and as been expressed, can be called off if 10 miracles occur and she truly manages to pull of a full transformation, and convince you she’s worth keeping.

2. Tell her you MAY be willing to call of the D and consider working toward R, but ONLY if she discloses the FULL truth (and yes, there is a way you can reasonably verify at least what she believes happened - see below), that she inform both families what she did, that she takes the full initiative to LEAD *every effort* towards doing all she can to mending what she broke (with you knowing it’ll never be the same), that she not only promises to "crawl over broken glass" for you, BUT ACTUALLY DOES IT for at least a year, she accepts all natural consequences for her evil choices, and much more.

Here’s how you can come to a pretty good understanding of the truth: have her WRITE OUT absolutely EVERYTHING they did, with as much detail as you ask for, documenting every aspect of their relationship. Give her only a few days to complete this. Then she gives you a copy. Then SHE reads what she wrote as you sit and listen. Then tell her she will sit for a polygraph where she will be asked to confirm she’s given you the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. Ask her if she now has anything to add. Tell her if she refuses or fails the poly, you are done and you’re continuing the path to D. If she gets this far, ask the polygrapher to also ask her if she’s had ANY kind of sexual contact (it will be defined) with anyone else besides OM since the day you met.

Note this process won’t disclose anything she truly forgot, but so what. What it will give is a very good start, and the best way of getting closer to what actually went down.

On the other hand, you may have come to feel all this is a deal-breaker for you. 1000% understandable if you have. This is why Jesus affirmed divorce as a legit option after sexual immorality.

Keep posting!