SurvivingInfidelity.com^®

OP

I am sorry you are going thru this. It is a gut wrenching experience that I am familiar with

all too well. My dday occurred on a Friday night roughly 14 years ago. She was gone all weekend

and come home Sunday but I wouldn't let her back in the house. She stayed in a hotel. Monday morning, I met

a Lawyer as she was getting out of her car and filed for Divorce. I didn't even have an appointment lol.

I implemented a modified 180 because we had two small children 6 and 3 years old.

Anyways, your ww isn't a candidate for reconciliation at the moment. She doesn't respect you and you

have not delivered any real consequences. There needs to be severe consequences for cheating but you are

stuck white knuckling a way to hang on. Moral of this story is all said and done I am still married to the same

woman and I do not live with any regret because of how I handled it.

You need to be willing to lose your marriage if you want to save it.

[This message edited by Gutpunch at 2:23 PM, Friday, October 9th]

I can’t escape the feeling that she has spent the last two months mourning the loss of her AP and as of now is only going through the motions waiting for someone else to make decisions for her. You make it sound like a horrible way to live and I can’t help wondering why you want to stay in this relationship. It sounds perfectly awful.

longsadstory1952 you're right. It is an awful experience and current existence.

So, do I keep the new appt with the EFT MC next week and try to explain in the open why I don't think she's reconciliation material yet and that we're wasting our time? Do I cancel everything and put my foot down?

We would use a mediation service so it's not like I have some fancy document to announce divorce. Do I give a deadline to 'get your shit together' and join me by Nov 1st or else.....? Or do I ask her to pay for her half of the mediation services to go through with all of the asset/child custody splitting in hopes it creates some movement.....then I have the actual documents to bring to the county when I decide to do so (or not)?

I do realize and feel that D is the only other option here if she's not ready to reconcile. It's hard to go through with it, but I'm also desperate to move on with my life because I have so much doubt that she will ever do any of the work in the near future. I also want my kids to understand I'm nobody's doormat. Not even their mom's.

If 'EFT' means 'Emotional Freedom Technique', my reco is to go to the appointment and work on the technique.

Desperation is your enemy. Keep reminding yourself that you can survive this and thrive. You have a number of options here, all of which can lead to a good life. I know they all seem like losing options, but they're not.

Be careful with the term 'consequences'. Many people really mean 'punishment', and punishment is neither here nor there, because the WS can't be punished without adding to the BS's hurt. But there are always consequences - sequelae, I think, in Latin - that follow the infidelity.

Focus on your own healing. Process the anger, grief, fear, shame, etc. out of your body. Starting that will help clear your head and see what you're really facing. You can D even if your W is a great candidate for R. You can start R even if she's a lousy candidate, but I hope you don't do that.

Focus on recognizing your strengths and using them. Focus on enhancing your strengths. Processing your feelings is the best 1st step, IMO. The people who do best after being betrayed are those who take control of and responsibility for themselves and give up trying to control the outcome.

Using EFT - Emotional Freedom Technique - is a good way to start.

[This message edited by SI Staff at 4:03 PM, Friday, October 9th]

EFT- Emotionally Focused Therapy

I personally almost always encourage filing for divorce unless there are some unique hardship issues. Divorce can be stopped but nearly everything at this point is causing pain because of uncertainty. Putting some countdown on the efforts is positive in the sense it can’t really be negatiated and it forces people, if interested, to operate with the requisite urgency.

Since I have no experience with EFT I have no way to answer your question. But I see MC is part of it so it implies more of what has been a waste up to now. I would not give an ultimatum here since she has steadfastly refused to put the work in and setting a red line will allow her to test you.

Your best option right now is to start whatever process there is for getting the dissolution going. Not to see what she does but to show fortitude in the face of inertia. If she starts getting it and doing the right things and actually follows through you will know pretty quickly. If not, you get out of the prison your M has become.

Thank you all for more words of wisdom and things to think about. When you don't have anyone to talk to besides your once a week IC it gets very lonely. I do have one good buddy I fish and hunt with that I told JUST enough info early on in this process to let him know how much I'm hurting but not enough that he would slap me across the face for not divorcing already.....And I did finally tell my parents. They are 80. I did NOT want them to stress over me or my situation. I'm an adult with adult problems that need adult solutions but I was surprised that in sharing my experience with them it did lift just a tiny bit of the weight off my shoulders. I don't think that's fair to transfer any to them and I will always feel bad about that but I value being TRUTHFUL and not hiding emotions like my spouse has been doing for 25 years. My folks appreciate the honesty and that I shared that I'm struggling through the most difficult time in my life and that my kids and I will be ok.

There are a few of us here who took real steps toward divorce and saw dramatic change. If you read my profile you'll see a pretty nasty d day and following month. It was looking pretty bad for us.

Until I started calling divorce lawyers and set up some consultations in front of my wife.

Don't mistake that as me saying it's a magic bullet to get your wife on board, because everyone is different. We don't know what she'll do, but she is saying she wants to remain married, so you at least have that. But don't do it unless you're truly ready to get out of the hell you're currently in. When I did it, it wasn't a bluff or a manipulation tactic. I thought it was over, but to my surprise she turned it around.

It turns out she really wanted to stay married.

Then she demonstrated it.

If she hadn't I would be divorced right now.

All I know is, if nothing changes, nothing will change. You could stay in this limbo indefinitely. I really don't think you want that.

Just remember, filing for divorce is not the same thing as finalizing divorce. It's a process. It takes time. You can pause or stop it at any time before the final papers are signed. If shen miraculously turns it around you can stop the process. If said miracle doesn't occur, do you really want to keep living like this?

Well, we had a one week delay on starting with our new EFT MC so that was finally tonight. I was impressed with the counselor, and her ability to keep (mostly me) on track haha. It went ok. I shared when she asked, my wife not so much. Tomorrow night we both meet with her individually. Like with our first MC, my wife admitted to her that she was only there because I wanted her to be there or I said that we HAVE to be in MC. She still can't begin to explain her 'why'. And I shared later to her that I still have no 'hope' because if she can't begin to explain her 'why' then she certainly can't start to dig deeper and get to what allowed her to make such shitty choices, and to address that. I feel like we are wasting our time and money with MC with her stagnant mindset. But, it was the first time in 2 weeks we openly talked about things for a bit anyway. She had a depression/psych eval and has been on an antidepressant for 1.5 weeks- after 1 pill day for a week it went to 2. I realize that it will take 2-4 weeks for her to feel anything and it might not be the right choice and they might start her on a new one. OR, she tells them she's 'fine' and gets off them. Anyway, I have to give them to her and watch her take them because she thinks it's stupid and she doesn't need them and I don't think she'd take them otherwise. So anyway- fun times.

Did you sign up for a wife...or a child?

As long as you are willing to do ALL of the work, she won't have to do anything.

I believe that a wayward has to be proverbially willing to crawl a mile through broken glass for the marriage in order for reconciliation to succeed.

Your WW isn't even willing to take prescribed medication without you standing over her like a child.

Not all prisons have bars, my friend.

MNBS

Couldn't agree more with farsidejunky's post.

Your wife is getting a great deal in all this! Not only did she gets her illicit affair, doesn't need to make any adjustments to her schedule and you'll drag her through all the work she should be dying to demonstrate she's willing to do to keep you. All of this and after a long day of doing whatever the hell she wants, she get's to come home and have you doting on her.

This will not elicit change. She needs to change. She is presently a cheater and you deserve more than that. You simply can't do this alone. Furthermore, my biggest recommendation would be to examine why you are willing to have a partner who acts this way.

[This message edited by DRSOOLERS at 11:44 AM, Wednesday, October 21st]

MNBS, like many BSs, I think your expectations of what IC might be unreasonable. First and foremost, there's very little progress that can be made in IC if the patient is lying both to themselves and to the clinician. Second, an IC can't make you wife do the work on herself or your marriage. You're already seeing that she is not motivated to read books or take medication. Third, the wrong IC might actually enable her bad behavior.

And as for the medication, sporadic use of antidepressants is BAD. Skipping doses or irregular dosing can lead to severe side effects, sudden drops in brain neurotransmitters, worsening symptoms, or even developing a resistance to the medications themselves. If she won't take her pills without you standing over her like a parent or hospital orderly, then she's better off not taking them at all.

Personally, based on what you've described here, I don't think that your wife is clinically depressed. She might be in a temporary slump based because of the current situation at home (hence why she was prescribed antidepressants), but she seemed perfectly happy and functional before you discovered her affair. I think her comments about not wanting to live anymore and being irreversibly "broken" are tactics to shift the focus from your pain to her feelings, and shut down any serious discussion that you attempt to have about destruction that her actions have caused. This is very typical cheater behavior.

Last but not least, I'm going to give you one more bit of advice that you won't like: Stop having sex with her, at least until you see some meaningful effort on her part. I know you say that sex gives you comfort and a sense of normalcy, but I have no doubt that your wife probably uses sex as a tool to placate you and get what she wants. I think that once you stop having sex with her, and stop getting that rush of love hormones clouding your brain, you'll have a much clearer perspective about your situation and find the motivation to act accordingly.

[This message edited by BluerThanBlue at 8:57 PM, Thursday, October 22nd]

I appreciate the time all of you have shared and especially your thoughts and expertise on this shitstorm. There is certainly a great deal of truth to all of this shared with me. I wish I knew how much in regards to my exact situation, and time will maybe tell. I'm certainly backing away from trying to control the situation or her side of the healing more every day. I occasionally feel more like myself the last week or so- more confidence all around (but still get emotional at the shittiest times). I am worrying less and less about what path we take and more confidence and planning on both routes that myself and the kids will be fine.

And- the important fact that I can only control me. I'm starting to work on me besides the inside of my home/garage. I'm going to join a local gym very soon 1 mile from my house. If she doesn't want to quit the gym where the A started, I'll do my own thing. I have averaged 5 miles a day walking for 10 weeks since D day. I took a few miles off per day the last week with some walking related foot problems that I'm getting under control already. I cut most sugar/carbs and drink P shakes for breakfast m-f. I've lost very close to 50#. It's a painfully slow process (feeling better about myself/situation), losing weight I think it easier at this point and it's a great anger release to walk and need to use it at a gym too. I have also been hyper focusing on the fact that we have opposite plans after the kids are out of the house and retirement goals. I work to live, and she lives to work.

I certainly realized I rushed/pushed a lot of the 'healing' things you/she are supposed to do and we're probably just wasting $ at this point. IC and MC might still be pointless until they aren't. I think a couple could really dig deep in books/activities and forgo expensive therapy if both were on board. She is certainly not. Things might have to get worse still before they get better. It's tough to think about but it's at least heading in the right direction. Thanks for the help all. I hope I can get my bearings enough some day to help others. I can't wait to write my own story of how it went and how great it feels to be on the other side together or single. Both are very exciting. One seems less stressful and more peaceful.

Counseling at this point is not a waste of time. IMO haha.

You can use it to help heal YOU. You can use it to prove to yourself if you even want to stay in a marriage that is very one-sided. YOU are doing the work, YOU are making all the effort to heal and repair the damage and YOU are putting your family first.

That will benefit you immensely.

If the day comes and you see your wife for exactly who and what she is — then you will have come to the point where you need to decide if you want to remain in a lopsided marriage and continue to drag her down the Reconciliation path OR you decide to stop forcing her to get on board and walk away.

Reconciliation is a long road. You can be hopeful and "all in" at the beginning but I’m certain you won’t remain hopeful and committed to R IF you are doing 100% of the work and your wife is doing the bare minimum.

The day you realize the affair has nothing to do with you, you will have healed to the point that you won’t look at your wife the same way. And that is when your tolerance for her lack of effort will begin to change.

[This message edited by The1stWife at 10:35 AM, Saturday, October 24th]

Thank you! I wasn't clear about myself obviously- I am and will do IC for a long time. It has already helped me a great deal. As I explained to her since she doesn't talk to anyone about anything- just a neutral safe person to talk to is worth so much. MY IC is wonderful so far and worth every penny.

Bigger often points out that there are 2 paths out of infidelity. Divorce or reconciliation. Those paths do run parallel for a while, but they eventually diverge. You can choose the path of reconciliation, and your wife can choose to walk it with you if she wants to, but you shouldn't have to drag her along behind you. If she won't come along willingly then the path begins to diverge and your only path out of infidelity starts to look more and more like divorce.

Or you can continue to walk along reconciliation road by yourself, but you will no longer have a clean path out of infidelity in front of you.

My goal was to get out of infidelity. Whichever path that was, I was taking it. Divorce was not my preferred option, but if that's what it took to get me out of the situation I was in then it was still the least worst option of my choices. The worst being sharing my wife with another man, even if it was emotionally. That was intolerable to me. I had resigned myself to the fact that divorce was preferable to living with a remorseless cheater and I made it known to her.

I've had a wonderful day today.....celebrating the end of a great football season for our son with other couples having a few beers and hours of conversation. It was really great to get out of the house and chit chat with other parents that also care about my son. I'm anti-social for the most part- at a social event, but I did well, and wasn't uncomfortable at all or embarrassed to be with my WS in public which was a big step for me at week 10. A bit of normal was nice. My son has a pile of buddies here right now with a big fire going in the driveway.....s'mores, popcorn, root-beers, brats, etc. A lovely slice of normal on a beautiful mid oct night that still feels like summer.

I don't know how to bring it up yet. I would THINK she's thought about it or run the numbers but I don't know. I've never been a big AI guy. But I punched in the numbers of what I know into AI for what our financial situation would look like if we were to divorce. We both do fine- similar salaries. But she's saved more than me while I was working on my masters degree and paid for it as I was doing it and didn't make shit the first 10-15+ years of being a teacher. But the extra degree helped since then in terms of pay. And, I worked full time 18 summers until I could afford to take a 'summer off' which has been years of driving my kids around to sports/jobs/etc (now my daughter has her license). I have given up (wasted?) so much of my life as she's been at her work. Evenings, weekends, zero vacations as a couple in 22 years........I don't ever see that part getting better. So I look at the 'after work life' in a different view now. I want to retire and move 2 hours back to my home base of peace and outdoor recreation where I came from. I think she'd work at her biz until she died. As my kids grow older by the day, they need me less and less. I'm 47. I'm not dead yet. I hopefully have many years left and I dream of having someone who loves me and protects me the same way I do them. Time will tell if that is my current spouse......

[This message edited by MNBS at 7:52 PM, Sunday, October 25th]

MNBS, Congratulations on your good day.

From what I understand, you are correct on your assessment of asset division. Everything that you and your wife have accumulated over 22 years of marriage is in fact community property and will be divided. Not necessarily evenly split but value will be assigned to each asset, that asset will go to one person along with its value until there is a more or less equitable division. I'm always amazed that married people attempt to maintain separate finances as if one person paying the mortgage means that they own the house while the other person paid the utilities therefore owns none of it. Utter nonsense.

I've made quite a study of this recently. In 2004, each of us received more or less equal gifts from our families, her parents passed so she received inheritance. My father gave me a large check which was essentially advanced inheritance. Now we were entitled to keep those gifts separate but had we done that, the income that those investments accumulate is community property anyway. We just commingled them into a single account because it was easy. That's the other issue, assets that you are entitled to keep separate can become community property through commingling. You didn't mention any of that sort of thing but this is how I get into the subject. She is out of family, mine is now passing and I'm getting gifts and inheritance. All of which I'm entitled to keep separate. However, we have nearly 40 years together. Do I want to keep it separate? What effect does that have on our marriage if I do? We both worked about the same number of hours a week averaging about 60 and earned about the same money and built 401k's of about the same size, etc. Separately, in terms of wealth, we'd be essentially equals, except, my inheritance that has come and will continue will make me much wealthier than her. Do I commingle it? Some of it has come as inherited IRA's which are by nature separate property but the distributions are automatically community property and I have 10 years to fully distribute so essentially, it's getting commingled unless we divorce before then.

I do want to keep some separate property for the benefit of a niece and nephew and my step son who is her natural son. A legacy account so that when I die, they get a nice pop from their rich uncle. So, we're executing a post nuptial agreement where I will contribute 90% of future inheritance to our trust but I keep the Inherited IRA and legacy account separate with the right to contribute the other 10% to the legacy account as well as the distributions from that IRA. All income accumulates in the account that generates it. Try to get an estate attorney to generate that paper. She argued all of it, took payment and hasn't generated a single word in 3 months. Lesson learned. Family attorneys are the proper legal specialty to do this. So, here we are, both of us are about to hire divorce attorneys when neither of us intends to divorce to codify an agreement that would only become operative if we did divorce in the future. Seems odd. While I am not an attorney, I sure as hell pay a lot of them.

That's probably more information than you needed. Suffice it to say, these things are complicated and you need lawyers to work them out. I've been following your thread pretty closely. I think you should already have a lawyer working on this. Like others have said, you should be getting yourself out of infidelity. Your wife seems to be quite happy in infidelity. That does not seem like a recipe for reconciliation. What you have right now is a one sided open relationship that you didn't choose. I know, she's allegedly not in contact with him presently. Other than that one unproven point, what is different about your wife during her affair and your wife now? Has she done anything to regain your trust? Heck, she refuses to even separate herself from the place where it started and the people who helped her hide it. Lawyer up brother.

The absolutely worst advice offered on this site – including anything I say on the subject – is legal advice.
We might be able to offer general pointers, but the details are so case-by-case, state-by-state, country-by-country…

For example: The general rule on inheritance is that it’s separate property. That is unless you had it deposited into a joined account… That applies in some states, but maybe not all…

The way I see it is this:
You can use AI to ask if you can do your own appendectomy. You will be told it’s been done successfully (albeit a Soviet doctor isolated on a base in Antarctica) so yes – it’s possible. You could even get a list of what you need – antiseptics, local anesthesia, scalpel, forceps, trays, blood plasma, Suture-clips and whatever… You could probably get all you need at a couple of places, disinfect your kitchen and go ahead. Apply the anesthesia and start cutting away.
Since the Soviet doctor managed and survived then we can assume you would too. You have the advantage that IF things don’t work out you can go to ER. He had a 4 month wait for the resupply ship…
Yet would this be your first choice if you felt a stinging in your side that is confirmed a burst, or bursting appendix? I’m quite handy at DIY, but I try to limit that to my home and vehicles. Medical and legal issues are best handled by people that know what they are doing IMHO.

To me the same applies to divorce. Especially a 22-year-old marriage, own business, kids, step kids and all that. The level of complexity is beyond simply swipe, cut, remove and sew.
This doesn’t automatically mean a confrontational Kramer v Kramer situation. You two could agree on one attorney that outlines why his suggestion and valuations are "fair" and in accordance with state-law. He make sure the dot’s are placed over the i’s and the t’s crossed. Makes sure your name isn’t on any of her cards, the one keeping the home is the only name on deeds and mortgages and all that.
Or it could be two attorneys that both approach the table with the orders of a fair settlement. Doesn’t have to be ultra-confrontational.
Or – it might become that. But if it does, you at least have ensured that your rights are ensured.