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I've been having a lot of anxiety the past few days. Monday was MC and typically after weekends I experience some lows. This week I have tried really hard to not explode like I typically do. I did have an explosive moment Tuesday during WH work day where he hung up on me. It wasn't really discussed after. I have felt my anxiety building since. Weds I was feeling really distanced and mentioned feeling needy. In my try to be calm but honest the feedback from WH felt lacking. He kind of just said he understands but we went through the evening like normal. Thursday I mentioned feeling a lot of anxiety and got "maybe exercise or something".

I feel like the "I'm sorry"s are getting less genuine, I feel like he has zero curiosity about my pain. We are almost 5 months from initial DDay. I don't understand how I can be so vulnerable and even when calm I don't get my needs met. I hear his responses and it just feels like he is heavily avoiding talking about the A. I don't know how to get through to him what I need is emotional attunement, some curiosity about my feelings, depth and vulnerability. Am I asking for too much? I am terrified he is so over taking about the affair and craves normalcy so badly that he's again displaying putting his comfort above mine.

He feels shame, not guilt.

It means this:

Instead of

I feel terrible that I hurt you so deeply, I would do anything to stop you from suffering for my stupid actions, I really want to help you heal from the pain I chose to inflict upon you (guilt)

It’s this

I am sorry that I was found out, and now looking at you suffering makes me feel bad about myself. Could you please get over it fast and forgive me already? I feel uncomfortable that you feel bad for what I have done. It’s not a big deal, I just wanted a little happiness for myself, not to hurt you. So get over it and let us not talk about me being a bad person. Let’s pretend it didn’t happen (shame)

One is empathy. The other is selfish self commiseration that cares almost nothing about you, and absolutely nothing about your pain. It’s only me me me me me me… stop being sad or you make ME feel bad.

Get it?

I am sorry that I was found out, and now looking at you suffering makes me feel bad about myself. Could you please get over it fast and forgive me already? I feel uncomfortable that you feel bad for what I have done. It’s not a big deal, I just wanted a little happiness for myself, not to hurt you. So get over it and let us not talk about me being a bad person. Let’s pretend it didn’t happen

Welp, just had a conversation with WH and it didn't go well. I told him I felt like there was an emotional wall, complete lack of vulnerability and what spilled out was exactly what you said.

I'm so exhausted, a part of me was grateful for at least honesty. He was very forthcoming that it just comes naturally. I get that he has a lot of growth but he is so good at saying the right things and he even admitted himself that he knows what to say but it's almost impulsive. I just don't know what level of growth I should be looking for? He puts so much focus on intent but his intentions mean NOTHING when his actions show otherwise.

I want to be in this but my goodness I want to scream. You broke my heart and im telling you exactly what I need and you still don't value me enough to grow?!? He said his need to control is default, I don't know how to get it through his head besides emotionally checking out that he needs to change for me to stay in this.

He mentioned how even when I was asking him for vulnerability a part of him internally went "ok I can do that but can you not change a car battery?!?" Because the other day I couldn't get the car to start to pick up our oldest when I have our 1 year old twins with me and I didn't just handle it myself. It feels so fkd the way his brain works. Like you cheated on your wife who takes care of TWO BABIES and justify not being vulnerable because you resent me for not changing the battery on our car and wanted you to handle it??! Wtf. It's such a small thing but the perfect example of his brain. I CAN change the battery, why wouldn't my husband want to handle it for me though? It's so baffling and disturbing that small example.

His need to control doesn’t add up.

It looks more like his goal is to avoid any and all consequences of his affair.

I don’t know how long you can go on asking for things from him and not getting them. Eventually I believe the resentment will kill the marriage. Or at least your love for the cheater in some small way(s).

Shame is put on a child who then lives with it into adulthood. It can be life long. Guilt is a short sense of recognizing you did or said something harmful…and it has a short shelf life. If he has no ability to see the damage he lacks empathy so he says the words without the feelings. You can’t change him. This is who he is. That is what you are up against. That is why you need to look at your future life. Do not sentence yourself to a life of pain if he shows no signs of recognizing what he did and how painful it is. This is your one life.

It looks more like his goal is to avoid any and all consequences of his affair.

That's definitely what it feels like. It's so conflicting, he says the right things AFTER the fact but when the time comes for his actions to align he regresses into the same man who gave himself permission to cheat on me. I've been honest, I've even told him I feel myself detaching. He asks me constantly "do you still love me?" or says "will you not be able to love me the same way you did?" And it frustrates me. I had to look him in the face and tell him "DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND HOW HARD IT IS TO STILL HAVE LOVE FOR YOU AFTER HAVING AN AFFAIR? LET ALONE BE IN LOVE WITH YOU?! WHAT DID YOU THINK WOULD HAPPEN? THAT YOU COULD GET YOUR D SUCKED BY MY FRIEND AND NOTHING WOULD CHANGE?!"

I just feel like he's delusional but I also see his pain so I get conflicted because I don't think he WANTS to be the way he is but who he has been and what he has been capable of is not someone I can be with. I'm very clear and you would think if he wants me and our family so badly he would be doing the things he knows he needs to in order to build trust up again. I'm just so lost.

He’s a coward. Plain & simple.

He runs from his feelings. Buries them. Hides from them.

Very typical cheater behavior by the way.

My H did that after his first affair. It was a 4 year EA and was completely rugswept. He refused to discuss it and spent 4 years gaslighting and stonewalling me. Stupidly I allowed it.

But it was very different after Affair#2. If he wanted to R I wasn’t going to allow that to happen again. He either communicated or we D. It was that simple.

And since I was the one who wanted the D, I was holding the cards so to speak. So he had to decide to stop being a coward and hiding behind the proverbial wall or we D.

In many ways we have a very different marriage. I face things head on and don’t let him use "I don’t know" as a way to end the conversation. I now hold him accountable and require active participation in discussions.

The s couple of possibilities for jarring your WS out of his rut. The first is for you to identify your requirements for R, lay them out for hi (perhaps in an MC session), and ask him to agree to meet them. If he refuses, start D. I think every BS who's contemplating R needs to do something like that.

He's feeling sorry for himself. IMO he's also looking to you for parental approval, and it's no fun to be M to a parent or child.

Does he behave the same way in MC as he does in real life? If not, my reco is to bring up his neediness and his rug-sweeping behavior. Perhaps your MC will be able to get him to move.

But he'll change only if he wants to change, and you describe a man/mouse/child who isn't willing to change.

\

Sending love and hugs, have gone through exactly the same with my WH

Hello, Raven. I'm truly sorry you're going through this nightmare. I've just read through all of your posts and a few things stand out to me, none of which suggest that your WH is a good candidate for reconciliation. I really wish that wasn't the case.

You already know that your WH suffers from sex addiction. As with any other addiction, recovery is both extremely difficult and a life-long struggle. Of course, people can and often do triumph over their addictions. He might be one of them. If...

I could be wrong about this next one, but I'm coming from a "takes one to know one" perspective and I've seen the tell-tale signs so often from other SI members that it's become glaringly obvious to me.

Conflict avoidance and wall-building.

I've had a tendency to avoid conflict and build walls for most of my life (foo shit). Shortly after I discovered my ex-wife's infidelity, I had something of an epiphany. Those tendencies were not going to help me. She'd just given me a conflict that I simply could not avoid, no matter how hard I might have tried. And if I added any more bricks to my already massive walls, I'd end up completely isolating myself from... everything and everyone, which terrified me.

Over the years I've learned some very important things about these tendencies.

People who tend to avoid conflict first and foremost avoid the conflicts within themselves. We build these emotional walls because we believe that they will keep us safe from harm. In truth, however, we build them to hide within, to avoid the conflicts within.

As a betrayed spouse, the shock and trauma were more than enough to force me to evaluate the efficacy of those tendencies. That's a bit of an understatement, of course. I went from avoiding conflict to embracing them with delightfully wicked aplomb. And those walls came down with equally ferocious alacrity.

I'm not alone in this regard. I've read from plenty of other betrayed spouses who experienced similar, dramatic changes.

Now here's the hard part. When it's a wayward spouse with those same tendencies, reconciliation is almost impossible. Before your WH can resolve the myriad of conflicts he's created with you, he's going to have to resolve the ones he has with himself, which is pretty hard to do when he keeps avoiding.

There's more (so very sorry)

He pressured you into "ethical non-monogamy," (which, to me, is completely asinine, but that's a whole debate on its own). What concerns me is two-fold. First, you agreed to it despite your own values and desires, which is your issue to resolve. Second, by doing so, you've taught him that he can cajole you into betraying yourself. And that's exactly what he's trying to do now, today.

Now, how do you change any this? Well, you can start by changing the dynamics. You start by detaching from him, emotionally, physically, spiritually, and everythingelselly. Hard core 180. Strap on your finest pair of bitch boots and give him a swift kick in the ass or the nutsack (your choice, no judgment here).

Focus on you, your recovery and healing. Forget about your marriage and reconciliation for a while. Step-back and detach, watch and observe what he does with the opportunity you've given to him.

He might have the fortitude and perseverance to see it through. Maybe...

ETA: put on Katy Perry's "Roar" and play it loud enough to wake the dead.

[This message edited by Unhinged at 1:32 AM, Monday, May 11th]